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Snouts in the trough again

“Nick Bourne was under renewed pressure to resign last night as it emerged he claimed more than £1,800 from public funds to run a website that did not exist.”
Well he’s got the right name (Nick) not satisfied with an excellent salary his grubby little snout seams to be right in the trough.

The snout was caught last month when he had spent £229 of his Assembly expenses on an iPod.

People go on about Euro MPs and the fiddles they get up to I think we should look at some of our Assembly members and the fiddles they are on at our expense.

But there again the people of south Wales are so laidback they except everything without bating an eyelid and allow the snouts to get away with it.

Sit back and say nothing it's only your money they are wasting.

Politicians around the world nowadays are a load of corrupt grab alls.

If they are caught fiddling and it is proven they should be made to pay every penny back and get fined and thrown out of their self preserving jobs.

The majority of them these days are on the take.

There are stories like this and far worse coming out of every country now and the corruption is from the top right down to local council level.

They could never stand up to a royal commission of enquiry, that's why they never call for one into the goings on of politics.

You get the government you deserve so the saying goes so if you are apathetic towards what's going on serves your right.

Don't forget there are now hundreds of thousands of politicians around these days so it's costing people millions upon millions to accommodate the crooked swines.

The banana republic is here; now members of parliament have a vote on suppressing information on the public money they spend.

Bigger trough required if this is passed what a bonanza for our members of parliament it’s like winning the lottery.

“The Welsh Liberal Democrat Assembly Member for South Wales West, Peter Black has called on the region’s MPs to vote against a Labour government attempt to exempt Parliamentarians from the Freedom of Information Act.
The UK Government has laid before Parliament a draft Order under section 7 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. This Order, if approved, will limit the information which the House of Commons and House of Lords are required to disclose under the Act in relation to expenses claims by MPs and peers. Details of such claims will not be required to be disclosed, but only annual totals.

If approved, this Order will have the practical effect of relieving the House of Commons and the House of Lords of their obligation to comply with a number of outstanding requests for information under the Act. Effectively, the Welsh Assembly, the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Scottish Parliament will be responding to requests for information and publishing detailed breakdowns of their members' expenses, Parliament will not.
Commenting on the proposal, Mr. Black said:
“The Government are trying to sneak this through under the cover of the inauguration of President Obama next week. The Freedom of Information Act must apply to Members of Parliament just as it applies to anyone else in public life. MPs should not be seeking exemptions and special treatment just because it may be inconvenient for them.

"The public will not easily understand why it should be that the way MPs use public money should be kept secret. I would hope that the region’s seven MPs, Martin Caton, Alan Williams, Sian James, Peter Hain, Hywel Francis, Madeleine Moon and Huw Irranca Davies will help to vote down this retrograde measure."

The government of this country is quick to point the finger at the likes of Robert Mugabe and accuse him of corruption and suppression of opposition, when exactly the same thing is happening right here under our very noses. The only difference is that corruption in Britain is legalised, and suppression of opposition is more subtle and is increasing slowly as time passes.

This country has had a lot longer to perfect corruption than the likes of tinpot dictaors like Mugabe, but he's learnt very quickly from the masters!

Even at our local level we can see the snouts in the trough of councillors who perfectly legally take their ill deserved allowances and expenses out of the public purse. At a time of such economic stringency it may well be perfectly legal; but is it moral, and do they even care?

I notice that the leader of RCT's Labour group, Russel Roberts, has landed himself with not one, but three nice little earners. Why bother to work when the state pays you handsomely to stay at home, eh?

No doubt he'll come up with many a reason as to how he deserves the obscene sums he's paid by the council tax payers, much like all the others who are a drain on our resources.

We're passing into the worst economic crisis since 1929, all brought on by people exactly like Russel Roberts who thought that they had a divine right to enormous sums of money because they considered themselves to be the best at what they did!

Compared to them of course, Russel Roberts is taking crumbs, but it's crumbs that we can ill afford to pay, and serves only to create more cynicism when he is perceived as sticking two fingers in the air at all of us who have to pay rising council taxes for which we see very little return.

Do we get value for money from paying such grossly inflated sums to such ill deserving causes? Not when councillors are seen to be milking the system for all it's worth in the midst of such a crisis of confidence in that very system, and they're totally unaccountable into the bargain.

Oh, they'll argue that they are accountable every four years at election time. Every four years! They should be accountable every day of the week, and be made to give account of their actions and what they take out of the system as often as possible. Is democracy just a four year choice for the electorate? Is that the only time when we can call these self important bunglers to account? And even then they are able to wriggle themselves off the hook.

People are losing their jobs and their homes; marriages are going to be strained as well because of the present crisis, but councillors, AMs and MPs are all seen to be living off the fat of the land in the middle of it all. Talk about fiddling whilst Rome burns!

There has to be a strict reappraisal of the system that has degenerated into such profligacy as we are witness to right now. We can no longer afford snouts in the trough. So MPs, AMs and councillors like Russel Roberts have to be made to cut their cloth just like the rest of us, or get out of power and make room for people who have the sense of morality and civic duty that they so obviously lack!

Never mind about whoever. Try taking a good long and hard look at what Russel Roberts ( former Union man) gets from the taxpayer for sod all making him a millionaire off the backs of the working class. To think they have the gaul to point fingers at benefits scroungers as lets be fair what does it make him? Far worse I woulrd have thought.

Dont you just love the Union wallers they are having a gigantic larf at us idiots aint they?

Russel 3 well paid jobs for sod all - enough said. When are people going to wake up round here.

Right,I'm awake,there's a lot of tilting at windmills,
inuendo, accusations, all very well written, but now the acid test, PROVE IT! Prove it with facts ,figures no blanket statements like," corruption is everywhere" or the real belter " corruption in this country is legalised" are we saying that our legal system is corrupt? If we are then who can argue against you ,you always hide behind the everything is corrupt wall,its neat , you will always be right without having to prove it.So come on then, enlighten me, prove your right.I'LL LISTEN NOT WITH A PRE PROGRAMMED MIND but a factual one,.

As usual, DMJ, you are way off the mark. Read my damn post properly next time before you start shouting your mouth off about my saying that the legal profession in this country is corrupt. I never said any such thing.

What I did say is that as far as expenses and allowances being paid to MPs, AMs and councillors are concerned, it is nothing short of a disgrace that they can claim such overinflated sums, and therefore is tantamount to legalised corruption. That's a million miles away from your misinterpretation.

Whilst the rest of us are seeing our pensions and savings whittled away by this present debacle in the world economy, these so-called public servants are well protected by the taxpayer. And why is that so? It's because they passed laws in Parliament to ensure that they would not share any of the hardships that the rest of us are having to bear.

Now that's all perfectly legal, but it's morally reprehensible, and if I were in danger of losing my job or home I'd be furious to see these people wallowing in the fat of the land at my expense. It might be legal alright, but to my mind it's nothing short of a scandal! The same type of self interest that we see in so-called "corrupt" regimes around the world.

Didn't this whole debacle come about because of legal corruption in the first place? Didn't George W. Bush, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown after him cooperate with the thieves who caused all this by removing the regulations that kept them in check?

I remember a time when councillors were volunteers. They never claimed anything other than the barest essentials for their duties. That's all changed, and now it's a free-for-all about which we as taxpayers can do nothing but watch as they trouser their expenses and allowances, and thereby stick two fingers in the air to the rest of us.

You may think that that's perfectly reasonable, but I and thousands like me feel that it's a form of corruption given an air of respectability it doesn't deserve. Maybe you don't like the word corruption in this context. OK, let's drop the word shall we and call it something else. I leave you to decide upon that, but it's creating even more cynicism and resentment amongst the electorate to see their council tax paid out to line the pockets of people who were never asked to stand for election in the first place.

A volunteer force is just what it says it is: they work or fight for the good of the cause or the people they serve. They don't do it to enrich themselves at someone else's expense. So I am not accusing any single individual of being corrupt. It's the system itself that has become corrupt, and there are plenty out there willing to ride it for all it's worth.

Ddraenen. I did not,as you less than eloquently stated, "shoot my mouth off" I asked a question in a civil manner whether you were saying the legal system was corrupt or not.and recieved an uncivil, childish riposte. You did say now that it was "tantamount",there was however,no mention of anything being tantamount in your original post, there was just the inference of corruption.and legal corruption at that.Ddraenen, i'll ask you no more questions on this subject because you have gone so far down this road it appears, to be able to stand any ctiticism or questioning about your theoretical accusations

If anyone can't see or recognise that there is corruption in world and local politics these days they desreve all they get. and that will amount to more out of your pocket to pay for it with less in return for your money.

If members of parliament are not afraid of you seeing the true picture of what's going on why then to they try their hardest to bring in bills like the one they want to limit what you can find out about them.

They don't bring in bills to limit what they can find out about you.

If they got nothing to hide why bother to waste time and money on such bills.

There should be no hidden agendas or secrets from taxpayers in a Democracy, but there what country can call themselves Democratic these days. Three of them decided to invade a sovereign country against the vote of the United Nations Assembly. Now that's Democratic is'nt it. What's the point of voting, or worse, What was the point of forming the United Nations in the first place if you are not going to abide by the rules you were party to making.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance as they say and it's more true today than at any time in history.

There is plenty of evidence from honest reliable sources out there if one want's to find it but again there are none so blind as those that will not see. And the corrupt ones love you.

Yes i do realise that there are corrupt bastards at all levels of government ,industry, banking etc; wherever there is access given to handling finances this has always been thee case, but what i don't accept are these nutters who see corruption everywhere, total corruption, Brown was corrupt because he and Blair gave bankers free rein, not that mistakes had been made ,no it was CORRUPTION. I proved on here that what was said by forum members regarding the flights out of the usa with the ladens on it, was a load of nonsense, and the retort was that "yes well they would say that wouldn't they" an official independent inquiry! With powerfull members of all parties present was just dissnmissed out of hand, because there are none so blind as those who are led by the nose,and like it!!

Let's get one thing straight once again, DMJ, I have accused no individual of corruption. My whole grouse is with a system that has allowed corruption to thrive. It's allowed MPs, AMs, councillors and public services bosses to milk us dry, all under a canopy of legality that in any so-called Third World country would be seen as blatant corruption.

Indeed, we've seen the likes of Kim Howells have the nerve to accuse certain African rulers of corruption, when his own party was privy to that very malaise in our own country, but dressed up behind a veneer of respectability. In fact, our masters have been quite blatant about it, hence the "John Lewis list" that they were so keen to keep hidden from us.

Whether you want to answer me now or in the future is irrelelvant, but you most certainly misconstrued what I was driving at, and maybe saw it as a direct attack on a certain individual. That is not so.

At the risk of repeating myself, I'm attacking a system that has developed under this Labour government, carrying on from the Thatcher regime, of placing the profits of its corporate friends before the well-being of the country as a whole. Hence the economic mess we're in, and the non-accountability and buck passing we see even at a local level right here in RCT.

Anyone noticed how crime has run amok as well? This is no accident either that sentences for violent criminals are derisory and in no way reflect the seriousness that should be taken by the courts of such outrages. The courts reflect the government's attitude as well in that they place low priority on the welfare of ordinary citizens.

Despite their denials to the contrary, your home is not the safe haven you think it is, and you're still not even allowed to defend it against some thug who thinks he has the perfect right to take what he wants from you with impunity. That to me is another sign that we live in a society where the criminal's rights have priority over his victim's. In short, a society run for and on behalf of the criminals!

Corruption once again as far as I'm concerned. Not a day goes by when I don't read or hear of some court decision that reinforces my belief that the cons have taken over the jail, and we are on our own in our struggle to find justice and security in a country that penalises the law-abiding and the innocent.

Also, this government's actions have shored up the corrupt in the banking system to the tune of billions of pounds of OUR money, with no comebacks on the thieves who got us into this mess in the first place.

So, DMJ, if you want the proof that you demanded I produce about the prevalence of corruption in this country, there it is in front of your eyes. In fact, it's hitting you and me and every citizen in the mouth on a daily basis, and we'll all be paying for it from now until our children grow old themselves!

But not to worry; the MPs, AMs, councillors, public services bosses and the government's friends in the corporate sector won't suffer for it; they'll still carry on milking the system for all it's worth. That should make your cornflakes go down a bit better this morning,eh?

In the meantime, if you want further proof, here's a couple of links you might like to follow up on: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/corruption/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1527842/Tax-havens-%27put-Britain-high-o...

"Powerful members of all parties were dismissed out of hand " dmj

You have government elected officers under scrutiny right now because they are not doing the job they are being paid for and that's the Ombudsmen in the Uk. and they were put there to see fair play done on the publics behalf, so why should anyone trust any enquiry attended by powerful members of any party. Those same powerful democratic members were some of the same that invaded a sovereign country against the vote of the United Nations.

You trust them dmj and you will live to regret it I'm sure.

My father trusted them with war bonds and they reneged on the deal and stole his money which he had very little of.

As for the Bin Laden family incident, there are still questions being asked on that one but no defunite answers forthcoming from the ones that were in charge.

I can send you DVDs if you like dmj if you send me your address and they will give you a lot to think about. I will make copies for you just to show you the kind of crooked Bs we're talking about here.

My e mail is cymro1@westnet.com.au

Feast your eyes on this little gem as well for more evidence of bungling on our behalf by our local incumbents:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/01/20/council-paid-con...

This goverment, and its minions at local level like RCT Council, has spent a fortune of taxpayers' money on so-called "consultants". Billions of pounds have been squandered; money that could have built more schools, hospitals and other health services, as well as supplying our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan with decent equipment to fight Tony Blair's war.

Anyone notice any great improvements as a reult of all these "consultants"?...No?...I thought not!

A consultant of course is defined as someone who borrows your watch to tell you the time, charges you handsomely for the priviledge, and then runs off with your watch afterwards!

No hope of any of that now though, as the banks are taking your money to prop up their corrupt practices. The snouts are still in the trough by the way, as you'll all find out when the next council tax increases come around! No doubt they'll employ other "consultants" to advise them on that issue.

Now here's a good idea that could be applied to our local incumbents! If it applies to benefit fraudsters, then it should also apply to politicians! Easy to pick on the weak and vulnerable, whilst allowing the big fish to swim away, eh? Always a useful ploy to divert attention away from the real culprits!

Of course there are some out there on the fiddle when it comes to benefits claims, but they take mere crumbs when compared to tax dodgers and bungling politicians! Let's get our priorities right and hit the real fiddlers first, and then we can sort out the benefits fraudsters.

After all, was it they who got us into this economic mess, or was it the greed-merchants in the financial sector, with the full collusion of their pals in parliament?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1126032/Lie-detector-tests-trap-...

Here's another little snippet that should please DMJ, who wanted quantitative proof of the corrupt nature of this government and its methods: An agreememnt has been reached by 50 countries worldwide to set up a watchdog to abolish tax havens, and to make tax laws more stringent. Those countries include France, Germany, and even the USA has expressed an interest in joining the scheme.

There's one country though that is dead against it. No prizes for guessing correctly which country that is! Yes, you got it: Alastair Darling has expressed his concern that such a scheme would drive business away from Britain. In other words, the corrupt and the greedy would cease to find a safe haven anymore on these shores. Shame that!

Nothing changes they were the old county councils but its gone up market now called the Welsh Assembly different name bigger trough. Below an extract from 1996.

Local Government Finance (Wales)

Page retrieved: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1996/feb/08/local-government-...
HC Deb 08 February 1996 vol 271 cc485-529

Nigel Evans

We have heard some horror stories about local authority expenditure, and of course I saw what happened when I served on the local authority in West Glamorgan. Expenditure on chains of office, new buildings and councillors' allowances was appalling. Last year, I condemned the members of Mid Glamorgan council for trying to put their expenses up through the roof in a disproportionate manner. Their snouts were firmly in the trough.

.Keep voting Labour you know it makes sense

There has been intense focus on MPs’ expenses following a series of scandals including Mr Conway (now an Independent MP) using his allowance to pay his son for work in Westminster while he was studying at university.

Chris Bryant, the Rhondda MP who is Ms Harman’s deputy, said the ‘Green Book’ setting out the new rules for expenses claims ordered MPs to “avoid purchases which could be seen as extravagant or luxurious” and stated “all claims should be above reproach”.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/01/23/expenses-row-eru...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/06/09/more-senior-tories-i...

Revealed: Labour lords change laws for cash

LABOUR peers are prepared to accept fees of up to £120,000 a year to amend laws in the House of Lords on behalf of business clients, a Sunday Times investigation has found.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5581547.ece

Audio: Peer brags of helping clients change laws

According to these exclusive audio segments released by the Sunday Times, Lord Taylor also brags that some companies pay him as much as £100,000 for his help sorting out commercial problems. "That's cheap for what I do for them," he says.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5590985.ece

The same old arrogance and self justification for what is morally questionable. It's all perfectly legal of course, just like the expenses and allowances milked out of the sytem by MPs, AMs and councillors, and they always justify it by the same old tired cliche of, "if you want the best you have to pay for them."

Much like all the bankers and financiers who have ripped us all off of our savings, jobs, pensions and even our homes by their greed; all of which was also legal and above board. Indeed, the spineless politicians even colluded in it, whereas in any African regime they would be condemned as blatantly corrupt.

No wonder the "snouts in troughs" mentality exists amongst all these people, when they think that they can take what they want out of the system with impunity: No accountability other than the four year election round. After that it's laughs all round and snouts back in the trough for the next four years!

The question I have to ask is, why are WE allowing them to get away with it? Why are we not out protesting most strongly in the streets against this corruption? We've only got ourselves to blame if we allow it to go on. Then again, how much do we have to take from these hypocrites before we kick back against them and decide that enough is enough?

Other countries are waking up to the fact of this blackmail, and the people have decided that they will take no more, so they are taking to the streets to voice their protests and to call for a halt to all this.

Our incumbents get away with it because we allow them to, because we don't hold them accountable other than on a four cycle, when we should be holding them accountable on a daily basis! Let them answer to us as often as possible. Better that the rulers fear the people than that the people fear the rulers. That's real democracy and accountability.

Unfortunately, because of our own apathy and initeria we don't have that in Britain yet, but it's long overdue that we take control ourselves!

So, with this recent scandal of members of the House of Lords taking bungs from their corporate pals, and as usual denying that they've done anything wrong, does any of that furnish DMJ with the evidence he wanted for corruption? There's plenty more to come yet!

A certain contributor to this site made this spectacular observation in one of his venomous replies to my posts:
"You can look for scapegoats all you like Y Ddraenen, the fact remains that you live in the most liberal minded and socially progressive countries on the globe."

Yeah, right!

And what exactly are you objecting to there Y Ddraenen? There are no spelling mistakes as far as i can tell. The very fact that you are able to access the internet and crticise politicans renders the spectacular observation which prompted that comment (your ludicrous comparison with North Korea)complete bloody turnip. I was merely pointing that out. Oh and i did so without the need to resort to excessive use of exclamation marks as well, attempting to read your posts is often like trying to decipher teenage graffiti on a Rhondda bus shelter!!!!!.

Give it time, it will not be long before "The MP" will be classed as a minority group and they will pass a law to ban jokes on politicians. Britain is not free any more we are oppressed and our free speech is being stifled. Just because we are not being hacked to death for our opinions doesn't make any less wrong.

Rhodri Morgan says “Its is unfortunate the Daily Telegraph got hold of these expensive receipts”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8050696.stm

Has the penny dropped?

Talk about being out of touch with public opinion

They've done nothing wrong they keep telling us; all they have slipped up on is getting caught. What usually happens to those who are caught fiddling the Social Security or tax returns? Aren't they taken to court, and if the fiddle is of a certain scale they are imprisoned? Can anyone see the same happening to our MPs?

While we're at it, what about our local councillors; what have they been claiming that we don't know about? When a scam like this has been going on behind our backs at the top, you can bet that the lower minions have been scrambling to get their unworthy snouts in the trough as well. Too good a scam to miss, eh?

It'll be very interesting to see what happens because MPs have already made themselves exempt from laws that apply to the rest of us: namely, it's illegal to smoke in public bars or restaurants, except that is for the bar of the House Of Commons, where a pint and a fag are still allowed.

Double standards? Hypocrisy? Criminal action? Anyone else got a name for it? In the meantime, we could follow this line of approach as they are only too willing to prosecute us when we get too close to revealing their skulduggeries:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1181872/The-ancient-right-prosec...

Y ddraenen...did you see Question Time last night?

Never have I seen such seething rage, expressed in both bodylanguage and voice, shown towards the politicians present. Even Menzies Campbell couldn't escape it and why should he.

I didn't actually see the programme as I've become very disillusioned with the political scene over the past few years. I used to be an avid watcher of Question Time, but it's become too tame and boring, with no real attacks on politicians and all the other corruption that has brought us to the present debacle. Nobody seemed to be telling it like it is anymore, always dodging around the real issues and giving these people too smooth a ride.

However, I was given a full rundown this morning by my union rep, who is also a Labour Party member, but even he is begining to wonder what the hell he's doing in the company of such a corrupt bunch of schysters. Margaret Becket took a blasting so he said. Good enough for all of them.

By the way, I looked up that link on South Africa, and was suitably appalled. Of course, the attrocities perpetrated by the whites during the apartheid regime also makes for appalling reading, but this is another case of the oppressed becoming the oppressors. It's never justified, but that's the way of the world in most cases.

Yes I notice Dimbleby has upped the ante a bit of late mind. Highlight of the show was Beckett being told by an enraged audience member "don't speak to me like that" after she responded in her usual holier than thou way.

Yes, it is indeed shocking. I agree that apartheid was terrible, but the complete cover up and non reporting of this veritable genocide against farmers and their families is equally terrible.

The opposition in Parliament has not been doing its job properly. The difference between the parties is now so slim that they appear to be just different wings of the same party. They all support a corrupt and defunct system, thus leaving many people in this country disenfranchised. I for one feel that I have nothing to vote for as there is nobody to represent my views.

I've disagreed totally with the way that the financiers have been allowed to run riot, all with the collusion of Labour and Tory. None of them wanted to apply the brakes to this system of bonuses, tick boxes and targets that has allowed a gap between rich and poor to grow to such an obscene level. This, coupled with the double standards imposed upon ordinary people, leaves a very nasty taste in the mouth.

Where were the voices of the opposition? They were silent because they too were in favour of it and would not have acted any differently, or even have allowed more rope to the wreckers of our economy and social cohesion.

Now the scale of corruption that has bedevilled this democracy of ours from top to bottom is revealed. MPs, AMs, councillors, you name it, they've all had their snouts in the trough. This is hardly becoming for what some people with rose tinted specs have called the most socially advanced country in the world!

Then look what happened to those who did have the courage to raise their voice in opposition: They were forced out, sacked, villified and cold shouldered by the corrupt and the unworthy. Is there any room left for an honest man or woman in politics these days?

Maybe we need to dissolve Parliament right now, to deselect the fraudsters and to call a general election. Then the rules should be changed so that the expenses system is abolished. This may yet turn out to be a strengthening of democracy in Britain, and we may emerge from all this feeling that we do at last have a say in how polticis is run at both local and national level. I'd like to see a lot of heads roll around here for a start.

You haven`t answered my question on another thread,Y Ddraenen, so I`ll ask again. If you feel so stongly about these matters, why don`t you stand for office yourself?

Like you Cllr William?

LC, are you and Y Ddraenen the same person? If not, then please allow him to answer questions himself.

You might as well ask that question of every journalist or critic who points out the errors of this or any other government, william. I already made my position on that clear some time ago, so maybe you should look back to see my response then because it still stands; and if that isn't clear enough for you then that's your problem not mine. I will not elaborate any further, but will continue to signal the shortcomings of what is going on in our country. If that makes you or any other of your fellow travellers on here uncomfortable, then that's something you'll have to live with.

Just because you have no opinions on anything, doesn't mean that the rest of us who do should stay silent. I don't see the world through rose coloured glasses neither do I live in cotton wool.

In case you hadn't noticed this is a discussion forum; like blog sites it's a place where those with opinions make those opinions known, and thereby lay themselves open to constructive criticism. By that I mean counter arguments are put forward to expose the flaws in whatever is proposed, not a lambasting with abuse and insults as you seem to revel in.

I have no objection to you posting your so-called "fun" material. Go ahead, this site is open to all and sundry, but just refrain from your empty criticisms of those of us who have something to say about the affairs of the world. We used to post a lot of such material on AOL some years ago, before you came on here and started getting uptight about what you were seeing.

I contribute to other sites as well as AOL, and nowhere else do we have people like you complaining about the "heavy" content of the posts. Contributors to those sites know what to expect and get on with it. Yes, there are lighthearted insults thrown, but nowhere have I seen the vehemence or veiled threats of violence directed at me or anyone else as I have seen on here.

Finally, as I've pointed out already, if you don't like what you read on here then either ignore it and just do your own thing or come back at us with your own counter arguments. We wait in anticipation.

Y Ddraenen, I am sorry if you have been or felt threatened in any way. That sort of behaviour is quite unacceptable. I must say though that I have seen nothing like that on these forums. Maybe you percieve some replies as being threatening because it boosts your ego.
I have not bothered looking at your previous postings as you suggest to explain your reluctance to put your words into action. Perhaps that is part of your problem, you are able, quite eloquently I may add, to express your opinions anonymously on line but are not up to a face to face confrontation. Personally I have always felt that if you wanted to change things then you must be prepared to do something to achieve that aim. There are a lot of people out there who do small things to improve the lives of others and, no matter how small, have done something of real value.
Your contribution seems to be purely academical, all words and no action.
Each to his own I say and if you wish to sit in front of a computer screen with delusions of danger whilst indulging yourself in mental masturbation then go ahead and enjoy yourself.
Maybe you have noticed that a lot of people who used to contribute to these forums no longer do so. I wonder why that is? A purely rhetorical question of course.

William: Just for you to see that I'm not imagining threats of violence to boost my ego as you put it, below is a veiled threat from a contributor, Aberdaredavies, who takes great umbrage at my posts using venom and malice to get his twisted view across, whatever that is. A baton across my daft little mush? Not a veiled threat? Suffice it to say that it would take a far better man than Aberdaredavies to silence me.

"If you followed a young female nurse around during the course of her working day then you would certainly receive, at the very least, a visit from her Majesty's finest (and a baton across your little daft mush if i had anything to do with it"

I was once a union shop steward in a factory, as well as being a political activist for various parties, so I worked to carry my principles through. However, as I've already pointed out, there are umpteen journalists and critics, especially at the moment with all the skulduggery going on in Parliament and in our local councils, who are hammering away at the incompetents and the crooks, but nobody apart from you is calling on them to take part in the political process. Like me, that is their contribution to the "cause", so to speak.

Let's be grateful to the journalists of the Daily Telegraph who, without standing as politicians themselves, have worked to bring about the revelations of the chicanery of our so-called "betters" in Parliament. There was nobody else to do it because we have no opposition to speak of in Westminster.

"They also serve who only stand and wait."

As to the people who no longer contribute to this site; there are various reasons for that, and if what they read on here from certain contributors is not to their liking, then they are perfectly free to go elsewhere. As I've pointed out before, I contribute to other sites, not just AOL, but nobody, repeat nobody, on those sites complains that the material is too heavy for their liking.

Those who find it so have the choice not to go on there or they can write on other posts that do not involve any degree of seriousness. That's their prerogative. Maybe it's something to do with a parochialsim that is extant in the valleys, I don't know, but if people find AOL too "heavy" then they have the problem, not me or anyone else who contributes to the forums.

It's perfectly simple, if people don't like the politics they read on the forums, then don't read the posts. Don't get involved. Stick to what you know and like. I've seen and heard so many people say that they're not interested in politics, and they avoid the subject as much as possible. Unfortunately, there are others who can't afford that luxury. It stares us in the face day after day and cannot be ignored.

That's my standpoint, as I'm sure it is of many others who are sickened by what has been revealed recently in Parliament and in our local council. It can't be ignored because as we know only too well in RCT, apathy is what the local incumbents thrive on. A silent, submissive electorate is just what they want to carry on business as usual.

Nuff said!

William I tend to agree with you and your comments after reading many threads on this forum Y ddraenen appears to have an opinion on everything but does not have the gumption to do anything about it. He or she is obviously someone who has plenty of time on their hands to change the world from a comfy chair and a PC. Some of the times of the posts suggest that Y ddraenen is benefiting from the social security policies of this government he dislikes so much, another drain on the working man!!
Perhaps they watched too many episodes of citizen smith when they were younger.

Its easy to critise people who try and make a difference, they may not always be right or do things that you agree with, but at least they are doing something. Get off your backside and stand for councillor or shut up!!!

Interesting first post tinky.
What I read is you giving your opinion on Y ddraenen having the nerve to have have his own opinion.
I don't agree with all that Y ddraenen has to say but I try to refute what he posts with what I believe and try to give some sort of evidence to support this.
What leads you to the crass assumption that Y ddraenen is benifiting from the social security policies of this government?
It is very easy to critise people when you believe that they are doing something wrong. ( you are doing it yourself, right now).
And now to the last bit of your post, "Get off your backside and stand for councillor or shut up" Tell us what your position is in life to be able to tell anyone to "shut up".

Touched a nerve? You as your cronnie obviously dont have enough to worry about in life.

Lucky chaps!!!!

"Touched a nerve?". You don't have the ability to touch any nerve of mine.
I can assure you that we are not "cronies" in fact I don't know and have never met Y ddraenen.
This is a forum and as such people give thier opinions, they should not just come here to tell another member to "shut up".
"Lucky chaps". I like to think we are all lucky on forums that we have the ability to read, write and put our opinions forward without reverting to a childlike state of petty name calling and deriding each other. ( but if thats what is required so be it ).

Your right! how immature of me. Oh well I'll leave the changing of the world to you fine gentlemen because I'm sure your bitter ramblings have an enourmous influence on council and government policy.

Having been involved in central government policy making for many years, I could possibly save you and your cronies some time in informing you that NO-ONE cares what is printed in these sort of forums. If you really want to make a difference stand, for a public office and determine affordable and deliverable policy that make a difference.

Life is easy from behind a PC when you are not accountable to anyone.

Don't bother replying I for one have better things to do with my time than debate nonsense with your kind, i'm dissapointed with myself that I have risen to your bait in the first place.

Best of luck with the revolution!!

"Your right! how immature of me".

At least you can see how immature you've been.

"Oh well I'll leave the changing of the world to you fine gentlemen because I'm sure your bitter ramblings have an enourmous influence on council and government policy".

It may not be enourmous changes but any change for the better is better than none.

"Having been involved in central government policy making for many years, I could possibly save you and your cronies some time in informing you that NO-ONE cares what is printed in these sort of forums".

If you've been "involved in central goverment" you would KNOW that internet forums can and do make a difference, This very forum helped me make changes to the area I live and had the people in power to act rather than just talk.
If internet forums are so useless you do you use them?

"Life is easy from behind a PC when you are not accountable to anyone".

Everyone is accountable for thier actions even if its only to themselves.

"Don't bother replying I for one have better things to do with my time than debate nonsense with your kind, i'm dissapointed with myself that I have risen to your bait in the first place".

I will decide if I wish to reply, having been "involved with central goverment" I thought you would have known about the right to reply.
As for rising to the bait, there was none you came in of your own choosing and opened up by having a go at a fellow member in your first post.

"Best of luck with the revolution".

It may not be a revolution but any change for the better, no matter how small is better than no change at all.

I can see you are still online and if you have read this far you are defeating your argument by remaining here, but that is your choice.

Y Ddraenen, my intention is certainly not to silence you. No, i think it much more sensible to let you keep evacuating your turgid opinions all over the internet because while you're busy doing that you're not, as others have pointed out, harassing normal people out there in the real world. What a horrible thought that would be.

Single parent attacks Bryant for grant advice

May 23 2009 by Martin Shipton, South Wales Echo
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RHONDDA MP Chris Bryant has been blasted by an angry member of his local Labour Party over disclosures about his expense claims.

Sarah Morgans, of Tylorstown, says in a letter circulated to fellow party members: “The sheer hypocrisy of this elected member totally astounds me as I can recall a conversation I had with Chris when he was canvassing at the last election. I was struggling at the time to finance essential renovation work on my property whilst being a full-time working single parent. I asked Chris Bryant if he was aware of any grants I could obtain to assist me. His reply was: ‘You don’t buy a property and expect someone else to do it up for you’.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/05/23/single-parent-at...

• MPs determined to block calls to ban them putting wives and partners on the Parliamentary payroll claim they have won the support of Commons Deputy Leader Chris Bryant.

He told a private meeting that in some cases the arrangement was vital to save MPs' marriages. Giving the missus £40,000 a year for answering a few phone calls would do wonders for any marriage.

Only MPs can do it with taxpayers' cash.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1189804/BLACK-DOG-Esther-Rantz...

http://www.parliament.uk/mpslordsandoffices/finances.cfm

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